tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post7571795580400284865..comments2024-01-06T00:07:46.172-06:00Comments on An Odd Work of Grace: How I Came to Change My Mind on SSU: Part 1. Obstaclesmattgunter1081@gmail.comhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14808597688160170927noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-3733604771266210172023-04-04T04:05:05.188-05:002023-04-04T04:05:05.188-05:00Thank you for reading and leaving a comment, Emali...Thank you for reading and leaving a comment, Emalie. I am glad you are finding this helpful. Aquinas is not alone in the Christian tradition in emphasizing virtue. Athanasius (293-373) in 'On the Incarnation' wrote:<br /><br />“But for the searching of the Scriptures and true knowledge of them an honorable life is needed, and a pure soul, and that virtue which is according to Christ; so that the intellect, guiding its path by it, may be able to attain what it desires, and comprehend it, in so far as it is accessible to human nature to learn concerning the Word of God. For without a pure mind and a modeling of the life after the saints a man could not possibly comprehend the words of the saints.”<br /><br />Karl Barth (1886-1968) wrote something similar in a letter:<br />https://anoddworkofgrace.blogspot.com/2015/03/bearing-with-one-another-8-only-what-is.htmlmattgunter1081@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14808597688160170927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-27011083649722528472023-03-15T16:43:56.237-05:002023-03-15T16:43:56.237-05:00Hi Bishop Matthew. I am following your current ser...Hi Bishop Matthew. I am following your current series on abortion. I felt hungry for more from you, so I decided to peruse some of the older content. The sentence "As Aquinas would say, how we achieve something is as important to it's being virtuous as what we achieve" really speaks to my heart. Someone close to my heart is so passionate about justice that they often come across as too harsh for my tender soul. I really appreciating the way you are so thoughtful and deliberate.<br /><br />I am looking forward to reading more on this series and the current one. Thank you!Emalie Hugginsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-38458258285602628622015-09-10T17:12:43.824-05:002015-09-10T17:12:43.824-05:00If homosexuality was deemed an abomination in Levi...If homosexuality was deemed an abomination in Leviticus, and if Paul describes such acts as unnatural and shameful, and if the church agrees that the canon of scripture remains the canon of scripture, where is the disagreement? Can you really imagine explaining to Jesus that you have modified His plan of male and female into something entirely different, unnatural and unhealthy for the temple of the Holy Spirit, but that erotic love trumps everything? Yes, LGBT people are known by heir fruits and their sexual fruit is sinful, not because I say so but because the God of eternity has spoken. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17847243733140708302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-10506170280414860922015-05-27T12:41:54.431-05:002015-05-27T12:41:54.431-05:00Bishop Matthew, I want to thank you for your comm...Bishop Matthew, I want to thank you for your comments. As a partnered gay priest, I thank God for the welcome I have received in the diocese of Western Michigan and others and grieve the rejection I have received in some simply because of my sexual orientation. I chose to earn my living outside the church some years ago because I believed my honesty to myself and my partner was more important - and more costly - than hiding within the church. My partner and I are Jesus disciples and we are fully orthodox. I do not "cross my fingers" when saying the creeds nor do I believe that contemporary men and women are wiser than our forebearers in the faith simply because we are contemporary. On the other hand, I do believe the Holy Spirit is teaching us new things that we still have trouble receiving because of our inability to see God's hand at work in the world. I believe the lives of Christian GLBT persons are known by their fruits despite - despite - the rejection given us by parts of the church. How much more faithful can we be? What further sacrifices do we need to make? Blessings, if I may.Carlton Kelleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-18209635818543751952015-05-16T17:41:02.505-05:002015-05-16T17:41:02.505-05:00James - I submit that there is a very large correl...James - I submit that there is a very large correlation (if not causal relationship) between Christological heresies (or the tolerance thereof) and the blessings of same sex unions. I was on The Episcopal Cafe around Easter and the idea that Jesus physically rose from the dead was ridiculed - as was the Virgin Birth and the Incarnation. Many of the leaders there wouldn't even condemn Bishop Spong for his theology or writings. <br /><br />The problem is that our anthropology (what is mankind) informs our soteriology (how are we saved). If we assume that mankind is a sinful, fallen creature, then being saved means being rescued from being sinful and fallen and being given new life. However, if we assume that we are basically good people who need a little help to overcome our bad tendencies, then being saved means being enlightened about what our bad tendencies are so we can work to exclude them from our lives.<br /><br />Soteriology leads us to Christology (Who is Jesus). If salvation means being given new life and having the old debts wiped away, the we need a person who is fully human (to pay the debt) and fully divine (to give us new life). Thus Jesus must be fully human and fully divine. However, if salvation is enlightenment, the Jesus is a fully human person in touch with his divine nature and who "becomes" or is "proclaimed" divine. <br /><br />Christology, in turn, informs ecclessiology - what is the Church. If Jesus only a human being that was more elightened than us and did not defeat sin and death on the cross, then the Church is also a human construct and can be changed as we become more enlightened. But if Jesus is fully human and fully divine, then The Church (his Body), must also be fully human and fully divine. The human aspects (governance, budgets, etc.) are also divine, but the Church needs a way to deal with those and that is the task of General Convention, Diocesan Conventions, etc. However the Theology of the Church - the teaching of the Church is not something that can simply be changed by a vote by orders. The question comes down to this: Are the proscriptions against homosexual behavior in the Scriptures and in the Tradition of the Church part of how the Church expresses its faith or are they part of the faith itself? If they are only part of how the Church expresses its faith, then we can look at changing them. However, if they are part of the Faith itself, then we cannot and anyone who claims to change them is actually mis-representing God. That, of course, brings up the question of how do we know what is part of the expression of the faith vs what is part of the Faith itself.plsdeaconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18039800243898137584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-41975932952817519462015-05-16T12:15:29.809-05:002015-05-16T12:15:29.809-05:00I am highly impressed with this introduction and i...I am highly impressed with this introduction and its candor, and I look forward to reading what the Bishop has to say about SSU's. I do wish that more in the church would better understand the obstacles to blessing SSU's for the church, which are presented very honestly here.<br /><br />On the other hand, I wish more in the Communion and the world wide church were generally less obsessed with sex / gender issues, and were aware of the state of Christology in TEC, especially at the top level - which anyone googling Presiding Bishop Resurrection (or a few other terms) can very easily discover - and about which we have had an almost deafening silence, compared to the gravity of the circumstances at hand.<br /><br />Many blessings to you, Bp. Gunter.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938641996931196631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4534237549485136842.post-76528566147659664042015-05-15T15:50:19.163-05:002015-05-15T15:50:19.163-05:00Right Reverend Sir,
Thank you for sharing this. ...Right Reverend Sir,<br /><br />Thank you for sharing this. I was taught that sin is a very serious subject and that all sin derives from a desire to "be like God" (gen 3:5). If we are going to now say that homosexual sexual relationships are blessed instead of sinful, shouldn't we come to a consensus before we start doing so? The history of blessing same sex unions (and much of the other changes to TEC's teaching and order) seem to follow a pattern<br />1. Start suggesting a change to teaching or order. Get loud about it.<br />2. Say that, because some are questioning the old order, we should be allowed to "try" the new thing to see how it fits.<br />3. Begin to practice the "new thing" - hoping your Bishop won't call you on the carpet too badly<br />4. Because this is now part of the practice of the Church, try to get trial use codified<br />5. Expand - claiming that those who oppose the new thing are hateful, fearful, or more interested in their power than the Holy Spirit.<br />6. Start taking over dioceses - running those who opposed the "new thing" out by ridiculing them.<br />7. Make the "new thing" madatory - as a trial use item - assure Bishops that no one will ever be required to accept the new thing.<br />8. Because of Justice requirements, now require that all Bishops and Clergy will be required to accept the New Thing.<br /><br />Look at the history of Women's Ordination as confirmation of this. <br /><br />I would urge you to take a "Halt" stance on any new canons or resolutions regarding same sex blessings until the Communion and TEC come to a consensus and until canonical safeguards can be put into place that allow those who accept what the Church has always taught on this matter to continue in good conscience within TEC.<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Phil Snyderplsdeaconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18039800243898137584noreply@blogger.com